Taylor: Today’s quote is coming from Steve Prefontaine: “To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.” Greetings, and welcome to another episode of Not Another Curbside. I am Taylor, joined by my colleagues, Chase and Michele. Guys, what do you think about Mr. Steve and what he had to say?
Chase: It was really interesting getting to read about Steve. I actually, as someone who you could probably tell by looking at me, does not have exactly the runner’s physique.
Taylor: What’s your mile? What’s your mile time, Chase?
Chase: It’s around nine right now, so I don’t think Steve may be proud of the effort he sees me giving. I’m actually trying, but he wouldn’t be proud of the result.
Taylor: I think one, I think one mile. I think you’re sub-eight there. I think you might be in the sevens for one mile. If we put some money on the end of it, I bet you break eight.
Chase: Yeah, if there’s money on the end of it, we’re getting below eight, but I don’t know if we’re getting much more than that right now. But we’re trying for sure. We’re giving Steve effort but not Steve results.
Taylor: So Steve was obviously, a lot of people know him as one of the great American distance runners who he actually died tragically in a car wreck when he was 24, but was famous for running the mile at Oregon. He was one of Nike’s original track and field athletes. There have been several documentaries and movies, and he’s got a lot of quotes out there. You know, digging into him, it was interesting. He was very much a front-runner mentality athlete. Like he had a gift. His heart rate was probably super low. He had VO2 max where he was just gifted with a body that could run, but he wasn’t known for pacing himself. He simply started, the gun goes off, he’s to the front, leading from the front, running as hard as he can to try to run his competitors into the ground.
So the origin of this quote kind of takes a little different shape to me when you think about his other quotes, which is kind of more applied to that. And then how that connects to medicine is interesting. What are your thoughts on that, Chase?
Chase: Yeah, so I don’t know if it’s by design or if it’s just kind of evolved, but I definitely think, and this probably stems a lot from starting in medical school and residency, that there’s very much a nature, and maybe part of it’s just the person that comes drawn to medicine too, of constantly doing your best, right? Giving your best in some form. I think that often times, though, that probably is misshapen maybe based off the gift that Steve mentions in his quote.
You know, I think that doctors are really good at spending extra time, doing work, right? Of actually working hard, working long hours, giving time to patients, documenting extensively, taking on one more case in the OR from a surgeon’s perspective. But I think we probably do less of a job of recognizing what that maybe true gift is that Steve was talking to. You know, Steve was a runner, and so his gift was going out, going all out, and giving his best during the race and not just kind of coasting or drifting with the pack.
But I think from our standpoint, whether it’s the administration or whether it’s just the healthcare system in general, pushes that kind of clinic bleed on us or almost a martyrdom complex. Whereas I think the true gift of physicians is your clinical judgment, being your presence and bedside manner, and then using your mind, right? And ultimately, to be able to use that true gift, I think you have to kind of reinvest in yourself.
Taylor: Yeah, I mean, I think I don’t know, this, this kind of, I don’t know, I kind of, I went back and forth on this quote. I think there’s like some bits of truth that apply to what I think makes somebody in whatever career, but medicine, our career, makes them great by recognizing an opportunity, a gift, and an ability to impact those around you. But I think what I would have wrongly associated it was that gift and putting in more time and effort and chasing perfection is not necessarily my best. I can’t, I can’t run on the treadmill at 10 miles an hour at a 15% incline 100% of the day.
But it’s hard as a physician because it you feel like at any little segment along the way that you’re not giving it that 10 miles an hour, 15% incline, then you’re somehow dropping short of that is what I would have kind of naturally gone to. But when you really think about it from a standpoint of what your best is not being perfect, but it’s managing the whole game. It’s not just that one play that’s in front of you. And so like examples would be, like you said, I mean, spending extra time in the room, spending extra time making a perfect note, being able to decide which of those is clinically going to sacrifice the quality of your care versus what are you just trying to be a front-runner and trying to do everything 100% all the time? And so it’s it’s kind of interesting because you can’t, just like a runner, I mean, Steve Prefontaine was awesome, but you can’t, you can’t expect to run your hardest every single second. I mean, it’s like, I mean, maybe 100-meter dash kind of, but even a 100-meter dash expert, they would tell you the first 10 is different than the last 10, right? And so it’s like, it’s just a shorter race.
Michele, what are your thoughts on that and how you’ve seen that with CEOs or professional athletes and how that quote kind of circles back?
Michele: I really would coach on that in that it boils down to consistency. And that what I find with these with excellent performers, with outstanding performers, docs, CEOs, professional athletes, is that they tend to be consistent where it’s measured. But life kind of goes by the wayside. It kind of questions what happens to the commitments when no one is measuring that. Like, how do they show up in their daily round? How do they show up for the, and what I would say to a CEO or a professional athlete or to a doctor is that your gift can’t belong to just the people that can fire you or the people that pay you.
And it’s like they, for an athlete, I would say you save the best for the scoreboard, but what you leave the rest for what’s the people left at home. The leftovers are for your people left at home. So I would offer that consistency is the name of the game, that’s where you really win.
Chase: And Taylor, I mean, I think just from having conversations back and forth and certainly Michele as well, you know, we’ve I think always lived by the mantra of like hard work, right? Like, let’s outwork the next person. No one’s going to outwork us. We’re going to be there early, last one, first one in, last one to leave. And I think some of that can certainly be good, right? And I think you have to be true to yourself just as Steve was clearly.
But I think that just like Michele says, I think that’s an outward appearance, right? That’s things other people can see. Your car is there first, you’re the last one to leave. But there is only so much time in a day, and you only have ultimately so much energy to give. It’s a finite resource. And so I think trying to be purposeful, right, in how you use that energy is probably the take-home at least that I thought from reading this and then obviously learning about Steve, and then trying to, how is this applicable to us as practicing physicians?
Taylor: Yeah, I like that a lot. I have a stupid, set goals every year, and I try to have a physical goal. And so connecting back to Steve here, my goal ongoing for a year and a half now is to have a certain time in a 5K. And I really wasn’t running a ton before then, but I’ve been working at it. And one of the things that I’ve learned talking to people that do Iron Mans and distance runners is, I might have three runs in a week, but like Michele’s saying that consistency, one of the most important runs I have is just a true Zone 2 slow run, which is like, for me, when I’m out there, if it says run four or five miles, I’m going to try to pace myself as fast as I can for those four to five miles. But really, building up the endurance, the aerobic capacity at what your body’s Zone 2, which you can base it off pace and heart rate, is how you really build that base, that consistency that then for my running would maybe help me reach my goal, which again, like Chase just said, I would have thought the exact opposite. Every run that I have is going to be training, it’s going to be hard. Some’s going to be speed work, some’s going to be distance, but I’m going to be going my absolute sixth gear, hard as I possibly can, which is just not the case. It’s just not the way you get faster.
And I think I’ve loved how Michele said consistency because, if you’re breaking it down into the six zones, you can’t work in clinic or in the OR in Zone 5 and 6 the entire day. But if your Zone 2, by training and by developing habits and consistency, if your floor, your Zone 2 is higher, then that’s what I think is the sustainable thing, which kind of is a little bit against what Steve Prefontaine said with his quote because it was obviously more just straight running, but I think that’s where the magic is because then if your floor is higher, then you know, it’s like a, what’s the saying, Chase, with the tide rises, all boats go up or what’s the?
Chase: A rising tide raises all boats, yeah.
Taylor: There you go. I knew the guy in Charleston, the boat guy would know that. But yeah, that’s like, it’s not trying to run, it’s not trying to just run faster all the time, but by kind of working that consistent level that, hey, because most of our days, like some days, you’re going to have a patient code, Chase, in clinic. Some days I’m going to have something go wrong in the OR. Yeah, then I might kick it into Zone 6, right? You might have to flip that switch and really put all your energy and kind of physiologic reserve into that. But your baseline, your Zone 2, that’s kind of where you usually live. And figuring out how to elevate that, be, gosh, Michele, I wish I could remember the Taylor Swift quote about, my time is, she said her time is luxurious. Most people can’t afford it or whatever. Like being, being smart with how, gosh, I just totally butchered that quote. The Swifties are going to be all over me about that.
Michele: No, but I know what you mean.
Taylor: Yeah, but, yeah, it’s, Chase is typing. Maybe he’ll get it for us.
Chase: I’m trying to figure it out.
Taylor: So anyway, being smart with where you’re putting your time and then being better, being better at that, so that floor, that Zone 2 that I’m calling, relating it back to my stupid 5K goal, is what I’ve learned is making me better. Otherwise, I just keep doing the same thing, kind of seeing the same results.
Chase: So for the Swifties out there.
Michele: Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Chase: You should, you should think of your energy as if it’s expensive, as if it’s a luxury item. Not everyone can afford it.
Taylor: And this is from Live at the Showgirl, I believe, which also dropped four new tracks. Highly recommend them. Love every one of them. Michele was the first, Michele was the first to put me on to that. “Patient Zero,” great song. What were you saying, Michele?
Michele: No, no, I just think, I think what you were saying earlier, Taylor, is it is intention. It’s like, what is your intention at the end, at the for your end goal? And again, coming back to consistency, it’s, but when I talk about intention with clients, it’s like, where it’s kind of like backwards engineering, like, what do you want your end result to be, and then what do you have to do to get there? And giving it all, all day is not going to give you your best result. And it’s being very intentional about where you choose to give that time and that energy and that level six. And knowing that doing that consistently in any type of work or in your daily round will offer nothing but burnout and it will not bring you good results.
Chase: Yeah, and I think practically, right, Taylor, I mean, you, we’ve all, and I think this goes for our listeners too, I’m sure you know, encourage you to think of someone that you know is a well-trained physician, someone that you respect, but someone that maybe has been operating at that high level, Zone 5, 6 for too long, right, without really raising the actual kind of endurance zones, right? If we’re staying with that kind of runner’s analogy. And what happens? They become cynical, right? They become almost like their own kind of martyr in medicine, right? A medical martyr. We’ve all kind of seen that person, or I think could very easily think of someone who we respect in a lot of ways for medical talent, but probably is not giving the best version of themself because they haven’t really thought about how to be consistent. They’re just at this high level. They’re, quote unquote, “working hard,” but that’s also a person that I think, if your gift is the ability to practice medicine, if that’s what you’re wanting to get out of this, you’re not going to have a really long career, or at least not an enjoyable one when you’re operating at that high of a level and not giving yourself really any type of break or evaluating what your actual goals are.
Taylor: So, Michele, I want you to speak to this. So when I was preparing for this episode, I think one of the things through playing sports, training for the 5K, playing football or whatever in college, I always thought that my best was like giving every bit of energy I have toward whatever I’m doing right then and there, and that anything short of that was, quote unquote, “slacking off” or being lazy. How does that, and obviously I don’t agree with what I just said, but that’s what old Taylor would have would have thought, right?
Michele: Yeah, right.
Taylor: What do you what do you think about that? But I think the intentionality of keeping something in your reserve, why is that important?
Michele: No, it’s absolutely imperative because you can, you can be highly focused, highly motivated, giving it 1,000% in a certain moment, but mentally, physically, you cannot, no one can sustain that. I don’t care if you’re Steve Prefontaine, I don’t care who you are. You can give it to that certain thing, but other aspects of your life are going to fail. So let’s say, like what Chase was saying, like the medical martyr, the person that their gift is medicine and they give it their all, and then they have this kind of resentful attitude because they’ve chosen to do that. And then their daily round, like their life, you see them at the club, you’re playing golf with them, you see them at dinner, whatever it might be, that is not a balanced person.
That is a person that doesn’t have anything to give in those situations because they’re so burned out from the thing that they believe they’re gifted in. And it doesn’t offer, it doesn’t leave you with a balanced individual. Mentally, of course, that’s where my focus is, you’re going to be a very lopsided individual coming from that point of view. And it’s like, you have to be uncomfortable to have the life you want. And I think discomfort oddly for a high performer can be throttling down. You know, it’s like, “Oh, I can’t, I can’t stay here. I’ve got to, I’ve got to come down and even out a little bit and go in, go in here at this level. I got to meet this patient here at this level,” because you just cannot sustain it. It will, you will have a burnout and what I see with a lot of high performers is a lot of burnout because they cannot, and I really do think it basically comes from the mental aspect. They cannot sustain it and they have a miserable life because they’re only laser-focused on one thing.
Taylor: So I like what you, I, we’ll do a little Not Another Curbside rewind segment. Discomfort for a high performer is throttling down, it’s uncomfortable for me to throttle down.
Taylor: I think that’s 100%, 100% relatable.
Michele: Discomfort is the currency to your dreams. I love that quote, and that comes from my mentor. Discomfort is the currency to your dreams. You cannot have everything you want without being uncomfortable. And for a high performer, being uncomfortable is throttling down because you have a different mindset. You have a different mentality.
Taylor: And I think like the with the, throttling, even if it’s, I would have never thought about it like this because that’s like a, that’s like a huge revelation, I think, for a lot of male physicians, like Chase and myself, but even if it’s just like throttling down so that you have something left when you leave the office. I mean, you could also, you could also throttle down within the day of your clinic OR whatever, but like, even if you sort of pace yourself, but by the end of your clinic day, you haven’t throttled down enough to have something left for whoever you’re going home to, kids, wife, girlfriend, dog, whatever.
Michele: Yeah, exactly.
Taylor: Yahtzee club, Then you know, you’re also, I mean, that is and that is so uncomfortable to me.
Chase: And it takes a huge degree of mental awareness, right?
Michele: Yeah, what you’ll see is that you build a life around what feels safe and what feels comfortable. And for a high performer, that’s performing. But you have to learn how to operate outside of what you do well. That’s the discomfort, is operating at a high level outside of what you do well. You know that in the OR, or in clinic, Chase, that you’re going to kill it nine times out of 10. But what is uncomfortable outside of that? It might be like turning it off when you walk through the front door. It might be like saying, “I can’t stay in this room an extra 15 minutes.” It might be, whatever it is that’s uncomfortable for you is really where the secret sauce is. That’s where you’re going to have a complete life.
Taylor: It’s powerful, Michele. Discomfort is the currency to our dreams. I think we, that is, ooh, that’s like, we might have to have a separate episode for that quote. So I think that can play us out of this quote, but that leads us into, we need, we have a big topic to discuss today.
Chase: Yeah, and we certainly want to get some feedback from our listeners. We hope that you’re enjoying these episodes and hopefully you’re staying with us. And for those of you that hopefully that plan to kind of continue to listening to all of our episodes, and we certainly appreciate feedback. One thing that we want to do to kind of help foster, I think, the overall group identity, the brotherhood that we’re trying to create, is have a kind of inside kind of concept for our listeners. So we had a couple of examples today, and we’ll love to get some, we’ll get some on-air reactions and we probably will not come up with the one we use today, but certainly appreciate your feedback. And then hopefully maybe get some merch at some point with these.
So a couple of options for kind of inside listeners or kind of those listeners that are listening every time would be The Curbsiders. Kind of rolls off the tongue a little bit. Other ones that I thought could be fun would be The Curbside Collective or The Curbside Syndicate or Off The Curb. What are your thoughts, guys?
Taylor: Or Curb-ets. Or simply Curbs.
Big Curbs. Curb-ets though would be would be another one I would like to put on there.
Chase: We’ll put that one on there.
Taylor: And these doesn’t, and the important thing for our listeners, these don’t have to actually be words. You know, they can, they can actually, we can make it up. It can be a new word.
Michele: Oh, that’s very true. I like that.
Chase: Webster’s not going to get us on this for sure.
Michele: No.
Taylor: The 92-Percenters is not a word, right? But it is now.
Michele: It’s a concept. Yeah.
Taylor: It’s a concept.
Michele: I guarantee you with Webster’s got it now.
Taylor: Exactly. So we’re we’re looking to make a new addition with Webster if it if it if need be. Michele, what do you think? What jumps off to you?
Michele: I’m going to be perfectly honest. I do like The Curbsiders. That’s probably the one that resonates with me the most, but I’d like to get a little bit more creative too and see if I can come up with anything other than that.
Taylor: The only thing with Curbsiders is to me, it’s a little bit boy-bandy. It’s a little bit like, what who could have been better than the ’90s.
Chase: Could have, and they were better in the ’90s.
Taylor: And they were, yeah.
Chase: And they were better than the ’90s.
Taylor: And they were better than the ’90s. So, that’s my only thing is like, is this, is this what like a I was listening to or someone was listening to in the ’90s? But otherwise, we’ll we’ll see and inevitably, your votes don’t count and we will make the decision, but we would love to have your feedback.
Michele: Absolutely.
Taylor: Well, hopefully this has been another episode where our listeners have been able to take something away. I think the discomfort part of this is really what I’ve taken away. I’m glad Michele said that. And you know, I think the overall how you run or how you work your kind of heart zones is a really good way to think about how to practice medicine and how sometimes it feels more comfortable or natural to operate at that Zone 5 or 6, but that’s not probably something that’s going to get you where you want to go in the long run. So seeking that discomfort, having that open mindset, and recognizing kind of what do I really want to get out of the day and how do I want to live and enjoy my career? I think it’s really some of the take-homes from this.
Chase: If you’ve enjoyed us, visit www.mindshiftmdcoaching.com. You can find out more and look at our programs that we offer and to hopefully continue listening to us.
Chase: Thanks for listening. If a fellow physician came to mind while you were listening, send them this episode. And if you want to take this further than just a podcast can go, find more content and coaching at mindshiftmdcoaching.com.
